Synthetic Motor Oil Poll 2017

[Dean2]

My 2020 5.7 with 30,000 klms, about 18,000 miles has developed the Hemi tick for about 30 seconds on the first start of the day. Doesn't do it the rest of the day. Changed over to Red Line about 1000 Klms ago. Tick is no better and of course Chrysler calls it perfectly normal unless it ticks full time or throws a code/light. So, what do you do when Red Line and a Fram Ultra filter DON'T fix your Hemi tick. Glad I have full warranty for another 70,000 miles.

 

[knightjp]

My 2020 5.7 with 30,000 klms, about 18,000 miles has developed the Hemi tick for about 30 seconds on the first start of the day. Doesn't do it the rest of the day. Changed over to Red Line about 1000 Klms ago. Tick is no better and of course Chrysler calls it perfectly normal unless it ticks full time or throws a code/light. So, what do you do when Red Line and a Fram Ultra filter DON'T fix your Hemi tick. Glad I have full warranty for another 70,000 miles.

As far as I know, there are two causes for the tick. One are the lifters and the other is exhaust manifold.
You might want to get the exhaust manifold checked if the tick only lasts for the first start of the day. From my experience with the tick, if it is the lifters, then the tick would be persistent.
In addition, I would first do an oil change with Redline 5W40, run the vehicle for about 5000 miles and then use Redline 5W30 here after.

 

[Dean2]

As far as I know, there are two causes for the tick. One are the lifters and the other is exhaust manifold.
You might want to get the exhaust manifold checked if the tick only lasts for the first start of the day. From my experience with the tick, if it is the lifters, then the tick would be persistent.
In addition, I would first do an oil change with Redline 5W40, run the vehicle for about 5000 miles and then use Redline 5W30 here after.

I appreciate the response. The dealer checked it yesterday. Said it was normal lifter noise till the oil got up into the heads. They said it was not the manifolds leaking, said it takes more than 30 seconds to warm up enough to stop a manifold leak. As far as the oil, as long as it is on full bumper to bumper warranty I am using 5w20, tick or no tick. If it lunches itself, at least there is no argument it was the result of using the wrong viscosity.

 

[HEMIMANN]

The work done by members has data to show lubrication strategy killed the majority of ticking (80%) - which means, it did not work for all.

I deduce this is because the damage is too far along in some engines for a lubricant to band aid the insufficient lubrication. Which is why I recommend using the lubrication strategy as soon as the engine is broken in.

 

[06 Dodge]

The work done by members has data to show lubrication strategy killed the majority of ticking (80%) - which means, it did not work for all.

I deduce this is because the damage is too far along in some engines for a lubricant to band aid the insufficient lubrication. Which is why I recommend using the lubrication strategy as soon as the engine is broken in.

Based on a nice talk I had with 2 service personal when I picked up my truck from service, things they know that affect the HEMI lifters problems is the fact the engine needs a high volume oil pump do to cam not getting enough oil, they need to run synthetic oil...

I also was very surprised at how small the lifters are in the HEMI engines, about the size of my pinky .. Anyway they also mentioned that being people drive in high speeds, in high heat or stop and go traffic or a combo of all 3, they are driving in what's classified as "severe driving conditions" similar to what use to be called Taxi service (its cooking the oil) thus need to use quality synthetic oil. I' surprised they no longer list a service schedule for operating in severe conditions like the use to wonder why..

 

[HEMIMANN]

Based on a nice talk I had with 2 service personal when I picked up my truck from service, things they know that affect the HEMI lifters problems is the fact the engine needs a high volume oil pump do to cam not getting enough oil, they need to run synthetic oil...

I also was very surprised at how small the lifters are in the HEMI engines, about the size of my pinky .. Anyway they also mentioned that being people drive in high speeds, in high heat or stop and go traffic or a combo of all 3, they are driving in what's classified as "severe driving conditions" similar to what use to be called Taxi service (its cooking the oil) thus need to use quality synthetic oil. I' surprised they no longer list a service schedule for operating in severe conditions like the use to wonder why..

Ya know, we should all really look into what it takes to retrofit the high volume oil pump. I'd wager that may solve everything.

 

[06 Dodge]

Ya know, we should all really look into what it takes to retrofit the high volume oil pump. I'd wager that may solve everything.

One person felt the MSD or what ever its called is also part of the problem, those galley plugs interfere with oil flow?

 

[HEMIMANN]

One person felt the MSD or what ever its called is also part of the problem, those galley plugs interfere with oil flow?

I read reports on here of lifter rollers and cams failing before MDS was added in 2009.

I don't know if they relocated the cam higher when VVT was added, or if it was always that high anticipating the addition.
The higher the cam center, the flatter the pushrod angles, inhibiting oil drain via gravity down to the lifters.

Frankly, it's a $hit design without a big enough oil pump. All we're doing is band aiding it with super lubricants and filters that shouldn't be necessary.

 

[06 Dodge]

I read reports on here of lifter rollers and cams failing before MDS was added in 2009.

I don't know if they relocated the cam higher when VVT was added, or if it was always that high anticipating the addition.
The higher the cam center, the flatter the pushrod angles, inhibiting oil drain via gravity down to the lifters.

Frankly, it's a $hit design without a big enough oil pump. All we're doing is band aiding it with super lubricants and filters that shouldn't be necessary.

I mentioned that I read some owners were adding stuff to the oil to protect lifters, neither one was surprised or questioned what I was saying, one said yep

 

[BrenttheMouse]

Is there a consensus on the best oil weight? For example, why would you want to run a 20w-50 instead of the recommended 5w-20? 2016 2500 5.7 btw

 

[Burla]

Is there a consensus on the best oil weight? For example, why would you want to run a 20w-50 instead of the recommended 5w-20? 2016 2500 5.7 btw

If you believe machinelube paper the best weight would be somewhere around 35 weight, but that is incredibly narrow and general. Viscosity is simply resistance of flow due to a given temp and some viscosity measures are for shear and temp. So depending on conditions the best weight is gonna change, sub zero you want a thin oil if you like it when your truck starts when you turn the key, when you are towing heavy you will want a thick oil with a high hths shear test, if you have out of tolerance metal you will want not only to be concerned with viscosity but additives as well. So what if you tow in the cold? That may be a situation where you consider thin base oils that have more protection from shear and additives. No there is no consensus on anything because the variables are ever changing from truck to truck. To answer the example question, if you believe the guy who invented the oil site he says viscosity ='s film strength, so the higher viscosity the higher the film strength, in theory less wear. However, the way oil pumps work in use that may or may not lead to less wear, there is a test for that called a uoa. If you want to experiment with viscosity and wear, I'd say experiment with uoa's in your specific truck.

 

[HEMIMANN]

A number of tribologists (BITOG, Machinery Lubrication, etc.) consensus is a quality 5W-30 is optimal for most gasoline vehicle engines. MOST - not ALL.

It is an average multiviscosity oil, for average conditions. The quality part is the bigger deal - a high quality Group III synthetic, or certainly a Group IV or V, is required today to keep oil deposits out of modern engine hydraulic systems (VVT, MDS, AFM, blah blah blah). These hydraulic systems were NOT present on engines 20 years ago and prior.

In addition, the Hemi being an inadequately-lubricated engine, a high dose of moly additive is required to minimize valve lifter and cam failure. See the Synthetic Oil thread for all the details you'd ever want.

 

[BrenttheMouse]

Would you consider Valvoline Advanced FS 5w-30 a good oil? I know that in the past there were issues since the oil didn't have any moly in it, but is that still the case?

 

[Burla]

With modern specs there is very little difference between oil and oil brands. It is a hard task to make an argument anything is "better" then anything else. This is even highlighted when comparing the old power house diesel oils delvac and rotella compared to the valvoline, formulas completely trump "name" and that is a newer feature in oils. Some oils chose to be outside these rules, the rules that have brought delvac and rotella into being equal to valvoline blue. But if you want to stay in the "rule" formulations, any synthetic oil that meet specs would be considered a "good" oil. 20 years ago, oil formulations were plenty different, no so much anymore. There is some minutia with in these specs I'm not sure that onion benefits from being peeled.

Now, some people would say historical commitment to moly has some value, especially for hemi's. If a company like valvoline and royal purple who seam to have no historical commitment to moly, what makes you think they will continue to use it? Especially considering at one point they had it and then it was gone, no warning no statement, they just used no moly for YEARS. Royal Purple was especially bad as they used to have higher then 95% of brands with moly ppm and then went to zero. Most companies have always made that commitment. If I did a uoa and saw a zero moly level where in the past I'd come to expect it, I'd be pretty upset about it. It is every bit as important as zddp in a hemi imo. At one point when we were following and counting cam fails on this board, 6 in a row cam fails the owners were using an oil with no moly, 4 of those where 2 valvoline and 2 royal purple, I forget the other two, it is in the ether of the syn thread and all the brands were noted, I forget some facts, but not the fact 6 in a row where from oils with no moly. Yes I realize this doesnt prove ****, but since there is no downside to have a moly count, why not be committed to brands that have had a long term commitment to moly?

 

[Black1500Ram]

Ya know, we should all really look into what it takes to retrofit the high volume oil pump. I'd wager that may solve everything.

Its a direct bolt on from either melling or using the hellcat pump (change out the oem 70psi bypass spring to something lower, 50/60 etc)

5.7 Oil Pump Swap

 

[Dean2]

I appreciate the response. The dealer checked it yesterday. Said it was normal lifter noise till the oil got up into the heads. They said it was not the manifolds leaking, said it takes more than 30 seconds to warm up enough to stop a manifold leak. As far as the oil, as long as it is on full bumper to bumper warranty I am using 5w20, tick or no tick. If it lunches itself, at least there is no argument it was the result of using the wrong viscosity.

Small update. Apparently the dealer didn't check very well. Got good advice from member Knightjp re the two sources of tick. Put a long rod on the vavle covers and manifold just after start up. The noise is not coming from the lifters. I am almost positive it is from the manifold, either warped or broken stud(s). Have ordered one of those cheap auto stethescopes since I can't find my old one. Will isolated to location. What got me thinking is it is taking longer for the clack to go away and was starting to sound more like exhaust leak. Amazing how close the initial warped manifiold and lifter thacka thacka sounds a like.

 

[Burn2k12Ram]

Small update. Apparently the dealer didn't check very well. Got good advice from member Knightjp re the two sources of tick. Put a long rod on the vavle covers and manifold just after start up. The noise is not coming from the lifters. I am almost positive it is from the manifold, either warped or broken stud(s). Have ordered one of those cheap auto stethescopes since I can't find my old one. Will isolated to location. What got me thinking is it is taking longer for the clack to go away and was starting to sound more like exhaust leak. Amazing how close the initial warped manifiold and lifter thacka thacka sounds a like.

If it is manifold then don’t just get them replaced as you will most likely get same results down the road after warping again. Best thing to do is just get these machined/flattened since warping has already happened and will not again. Unfortunately if dealing with dealership service they don’t deal in logic but only what is on paper which is to replace which you will have same issue down road.

 

[Wild one]

Small update. Apparently the dealer didn't check very well. Got good advice from member Knightjp re the two sources of tick. Put a long rod on the vavle covers and manifold just after start up. The noise is not coming from the lifters. I am almost positive it is from the manifold, either warped or broken stud(s). Have ordered one of those cheap auto stethescopes since I can't find my old one. Will isolated to location. What got me thinking is it is taking longer for the clack to go away and was starting to sound more like exhaust leak. Amazing how close the initial warped manifiold and lifter thacka thacka sounds a like.

Princess Auto will have cheap mechanics stethascopes in stock

 

[Dean2]

Princess Auto will have cheap mechanics stethascopes in stock

Thanks. Amazon, 12 bucks Canadian delivered. Checked out Canadian Tire, was only 15 bucks but theirs the tubing is so stiff you have to heat it to straighten it out.

 

[Wild one]

Thanks. Amazon, 12 bucks Canadian delivered. Checked out Canadian Tire, was only 15 bucks but theirs the tubing is so stiff you have to heat it to straighten it out.

I've never actually looked for one at Crappy Tire,so i don't know how their tubing compares. My old Lisle is probably over 30 years old now,and the tubing on it is still soft and flexiable. It's old enough,i don't even remember where i picked it up at,lol